How Long Before LeBron James Is The Greatest Small Forward Of All-Time?
espn – For the sixth time in as many games, LeBron James scored at least 30 points and shot better than 60 percent from the field as the Heat beat the Portland Trail Blazers for their 1,000th win in franchise history. James went 11 of 15 from the floor (73.3 percent) and scored 30 points. The Elias Sports Bureau notes that James is the first player in NBA history to score 30 points and shoot better than 60 percent from field in six straight games. Before this season, the only players who accomplished that in five straight games were Moses Malone and Adrian Dantley. In his last six games, James is 66 of 92 from the floor (71.7 percent). On shots taken in the paint in the last six games, James is 46 of 54 — including 9 of 10 on Tuesday. James also finished with six rebounds and nine assists, the 16th time this season he’s had at least 30 points, five rebounds and five assists in a game.
At this point — for most of us living outside of New England — it’s not a matter of “if” but more a matter of “when”. The last six games have given all of us a rare glimpse of undeniable sports greatness; a clear view of dominance that can’t be written off as luck or the benefit of a good matchup. LeBron James is killing the NBA. And while the majority of folks want to shoot him straight to the top with a one-on-one comparison to Jordan, it makes more sense to judge his career one step at a time. So the question is when, if they haven’t already, will the nation accept LeBron James as the greatest to ever play his position?
Larry Legend to most of us is the person who currently occupies that spot. His career 24 pts/10 boards/6 assists averages, 3 MVPs, and 3 titles remain as proof of his excellence over a long and successful career. But all things end, as will Larry Bird’s reign as the greatest SF in NBA history. King James being two titles and a Finals MVP behind Larry Bird will be the deciding factor for some, while others will claim his current physical talents already give him the edge over Mr. Indiana. So I bring it to you, Barstool. How long do you think it’ll be before you view LeBron James as the greatest Small Forward to ever play basketball?
Vote 1 for he’s already there, 2 for two years, 3 for 3 years, and so on. A vote for 10 is basically saying “He’ll Never Get There”.
(1,236 votes, average: 5.86 out of 10)
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fuck you mo
I would harldy consider lebron a small forward
fuck you maurice
Larry never left Boston to join Magic in LA. Lebron will never match his greatness.
I’m going to send Larry’s son to run over your black ass, Mo
Birds a better passer and blows the doors off Lebron as a leader. Lebron hasn’t shown the mental toughness to be in this discussion. Right now I would put Malone ahead of Lebron
Are we supposed to actually consider the chance that a black guy would be better than a white guy at basketball? Because I don’t know if I am ready for that, yet.
bajk22, you clearly never watch bball if you think bird is a better passer than lbj
James has to get at least 3 titles. If he does that, he’s the best SF of all time. He may even be the best if he only gets one more and if his stats end up better than Bird’s.
Yes, by all means. Let’s jump into the Jordan comparison. After all it’s been 18 months since he had the worst Finals performance by a superstar in NBA history. He’ll be the best 3 player when he retires for sure, but I’m not sure James will have as many memorable Finals performances as Larry. Maybe, maybe not. He’s got a long way to go for that one.
Typical nig move right there by Mo. You’re such a spook, Mo. Such. A. Spook. Spear-chucker.
I’ll take Tom Chambers over Lebron 10 times out of 10
Last minute of a game I’m taking Larry Legend, the other 47 I’ll take Bron
Why don’t we want until he wins MORE THAN ONE FUCKING RING. Jesus, if I hear about him being compared to MJ, Larry Bird, Magic, etc. one more time I’m gonna fucking castrate somebody.
I signed in just to tell you that i hate you Mo.
How can you even compare the two. They come from different generations. Larry would never be able to run, literally run, with today’s game and Lebron would set the record for most travels and carries in a season back in the 80s. Lets just say that we are forever blessed to have been able to watch two of the greatest basketball players ever. Also, Mo sucks.
pretty simple Mo.
Lebrons wins 4 NBA titles and it can be considered. Lebron has been given all the athletic tools in the world, where Larry had NONE. Now a lot of dudes had his athletic talent and I do believe Lebrons work ethic is unmatched,(current NBA) but I don’t think anyone got more out of less than Bird.
Plus Bird is 100000000000% more likable than lebron. Essentially bird is everything Lebrun is not
Mo is a Fag
Though i have to give lebron his props begrudgingly, there is a slight tilt with today’s expansion NBA. It does give Lebron a small advantage for game to game averages when you are playing teams like Toronto, Charlotte and the like. In 1984 there were 11 teams in the East. Today there is 15. Take the 23 teams in 1984 x 12 men and you got 276 pros. Take todays 30 teams x 12 and you got 360. 30% increase in professional players. That doesnt change you is the best player in the league, hands down Lebron. But the numbers are watered down on a game by game basis.
Lebron is already clearly better. Sorry you smug ball sucking Boston fans.
wilburham, you do realize bird and magic revolutionized the nba with their passing/assists. you obviously no nothing of the nba with that laughable comment
Larry was a better passer, rebounder, shooter, leader and played in a more physical league. Lebron can dunk better.
“The last six games have given all of us a rare glimpse of undeniable sports greatness…” If we’re using six games as an appropriate sample size to measure greatness, then the 2013 Celtics are destined to have an .833 winning percentage the rest of the year and dominate the playoffs on the way to becoming the best team in the history of the sport.
It’s called a hot streak, Mo. LeBron’s a great player, but six games in January/February mean nothing. We can have only have this debate after LeBron wins championships two and three.
Wilburham … Seeing a couple of you tube clips of bird doesn’t make u an expert kid. Seen bird, seen Lebron. It’s not even close
rod_beck thats just worng agian, comparing larry birds passing to magic johnson is like comparing magic johnson shooting to birds
“hur hur hur Larry Bird never left his team.” Maybe that’s because he had 2 other hall of famers on his team (Parish, McHale). Seriously, it boggles my mind that people still think Lebron betrayed the Cavs. And don’t give me that TV special crap. Get the fuck over it. This is the culture we’re in, there’s TV specials about everything.
Bottom line: this comparison can’t be made until end of their careers. Even then, Bird and James are about as different of playing styles as you can get. These comparisons are pointless.
Wilburham. Magic disagrees with you. Magic passed more because that was his job. Doesn’t me he was better. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhnRtgBGMl4 this is only part 1.
Statistically, Bird during his peak years was as good or better than Lebron now. 1979-1987, Bird averaged 25 ppg, 10 rpg and 6.5 apg. Lebron now averages 27 ppg, 8 ppg and 7 apg. LeBron is a better defender, but his teams have suffered playoff collapses that Bird’s teams never did. Bird won 3 rings in his first 8 years. LeBron has 1 ring in 9 years. Bottom line: Lebron’s career at this moment is very similar to Peyton Manning after he won the 2009 SB. If Lebron wins more rings, he passes Bird, but there is no guarantee it will happen.
Moe you are fucking insufferable dude! Larry had a “long career”?? He only played in 12 full seasons.. just 2 more than Lebron and Larry’s got 3 rings to 1. Also, for all this black folk hoopla regarding Lebron’s offensive efficiency, Larrys overall numbers are still more efficient across the board (50/38/89 vs. 49/34/75).. do your fucking homework and go clean your russell westbrook glasses you trendy new age nba fuck. Neil is so much better than you.
everyone saying that them playing in different times makes it impossible to compare the two have to surrender your arguments to saying that brady is the best ever as well.
IMO you can most definitely compare the two. sure they were 20ish years apart but doesn’t mean that you can’t compare how they played the game and dominated the competition at the time that they played. i agree with themadrabbi though, only after lebron retires can you compare him to any other legends
LeBron is the best player in the Universe, he is.
Never really saw larry in his prime. Watch lebron in his prime all the time and hate him but hes amazing but southie is right. Bird hated magic and jordan on the court, would never have joined them
@thewetbandits agreed, but I think Brady and Montana (obv the 2 best QBs of all time) would be successful then and now, where as birds game wouldn’t work today and vice versa with Lebron, IMO. Happy to be having a basketball discussion here in Philly compared to that abortion of religious convo in NY.
If you would take Bird over Lebron you are one of two things…..part of the KKK or fuckin retarded.
i’ll never respect lebron’s game as much as i should because of his playoff performance last year. the dude flopped so much it was ridiculous. bird, MJ, magic, kobe etc didnt need to do that crap.
I dont care how impressive it is, if you need a paragraph or three commas to state the criteria of a record, its not a record, its a statistic.
@thewetbandits I agree. To take it a step further Boston fans would have to be honest about Bill Russell too. He won his first ring when there were 8 teams in the NBA and his 11th title there were still just 14 teams, and played against a bunch of 6’8-6’9 big men. So does that mean they’re ready to add an asterisk to his legacy as well? Players are a product of their generation and they play in the era they were born into. Who knows how certain players would’ve performed in different generations. What if LeBron came in the 80′s when yea it was more physical but LeBron also would’ve been an absolute freak athletically even more so than he is now. Just watch a game and see how skinny those guys look compared to today, and people think that the game being physical would’ve been a disadvantage for LeBron? Despite what he’s listed at reports are he’s more like 6’9 260 and he would have been a quicker more explosive athlete than anybody else in the league. He’s the best basketball player on the planet and of this generation, he would’ve been able to adjust to a more physical game and probably would have been even more dominant. It goes both ways, think of how crazy of a defender he is now, then let him use his physical abilities even more by letting him play physical and use his strength, and people think this would’ve hurt him? Bird was unbelievable but when it’s all said and done people are going to look back at LeBron’s body of work throughout his career and just be in awe. He’s about to win his 4th MVP in 5 years, is only 28 or 29 year old, and hes just entering his prime as crazy as that sounds.
@horns, EXACTLY! Celtics fans are always gloating about how many championships they have but yea, they disregard that the majority of them were won when there were less than half the teams that the league now has today.
And Lebron would most definitely have been able to play at a high level in the 80s. Just think how much of a monster Barkley was back then (and I think everyone would agree that Lebron is more athletic than Barkley was in his prime) and Lebron’s probably got a good 2 or 3 inches on Barkley too. Just because the league today is filled with more gimme calls for the stars doesn’t mean they wouldn’t be able to play in a more physical era. Plus, even back then the Bird, Magic, Jordan, etc. for their fair share of superstar treatment so people need to stop acting like that’s some new thing just recently added to the game.
GOT their fair share of superstar treatment*
holy shit there are a ton of biased Boston idiots on here, Lebron will go down as #1 or #2 all time if you can;t already see that you’re a fucking moron
p.s. Southie is an idiot, Bird and Jordan had plent of help lets stop pretending they did it alone. Bird had multiple HOF guys with him
did you say Bird had a long career? He was about to retire 6 years in due to his back. You dont know basketball, dont talk about it
wilburham…you were not born with all your chromosomes.
lebron can do more on the court because hes undeniably the most freakish athlete this planet has ever seen. within a couple years it will be tough to say bird is ‘better’ than lebron. real tough to swallow that but its almost inevitable.
but if you wouldnt rather have larry bird on your team over LBJ, the only explanation is taht you love black cock. ive literally been sitting here for 10 minutes trying to think of where to begin with my supporting arguments, but i seriously dont know where to begin. the toughness, loyalty, teamwork, unselfishness, etc are all untouchable by a guy with the mental fortitude (or lackthereof) of lebron james. the stories of his toughness and trash talk (which he always backed up btw) are unbelievable. he was told to stop playing the game the way he did (diving for every ball that was even close to ‘loose’, etc) or he wouldnt last long in the nba. that thought was ridiculous to him…how dare you play this game and not play it in that manner? the guy played like that night in and night out and got his teammates to do the same. combine that with passing skills unmatched by anyone but magic and pistol pete and lo and behold you have the greatest team basketball ever played. celtics v lakers in ’85- magic recounted 8 straight possessions by both teams where the ball didnt touch the floor. thast basketball folks, and larry achieved it. not in a million years would i rather play with a fuckhead like lebron over a man like larry. suck one wilburham.
@arthurvandalay, way to respect history. Were you calling Lebron top 2 of all time a year ago, when he had the worst Finals by a superstar in NBA history? Just curious. I’m sure you believe Kobe is better than Magic, or especially Kareem. Don’t let 42000 points, 6 championships and 6 MVP’s fool you, everything today is better than yesterday. Fucking tool.
not even a question, lebron would run laps around larry bird and if you argue that you are either a) mentally retarded or b) your not looking past your dislike for lebron, it isnt even a close comparison
@mattador, just like Lebron ran laps around JJ Barea and Dirk Nowitzki, right? But I guess Bird couldn’t hang with Dirk either then.
@mattador, and just so you don’t answer back with something retarded: no, I don’t think Bird could guard Lebron. But if you think James could guard Bird for one second, you are a god damn fool. Bird dominated Rodman when he was young and in his prime as a defender. Bird would score on him every which way possible, just like Dirk did.
tired of hearing the way back players couldnt play today. if bird was groomed in today’s system, with todays advancements in everything from nutrition to medicine he would be an absolute stud in the nba today. lebron may still be better though
yall just gonna dog Detlef Shrempf..thats weak bruh
Larry never played on the worst team in the league. Put Larry in the same situation and I bet he leaves Cleveland too, maybe not to Miami but I bet he leaves. Also saying Lebron isn’t as good as Bird isn’t the worst thing in the world, Larry Bird was a legend.
@horns AND @wetbandits – you 2 should just stop talking about basketball (just like Mo but i think its clear this halfy has shown how laughable his hoop input is) because you dont know jack shit about it. hey morons – lebron isnt the physical freak he is today if he was born in the late 60s like the guys who played in the 80s were. they didnt have the training systems, the nutrition, the nike invitational camps. when you want to throw a present day player into a previous era dont send him back with today’s advances. otherwise you look like the shitheads you look like now
@themadrabbi – bird didnt just magically appear on a team with 2 HOFers idiot, in fact you could argue McHale and Parish would never have been the players they ended up being if they had never played with Larry. Bird came to the C’s and in his first two seasons took a LAST PLACE team to an NBA TITLE. Wade was already an established mega star with a finals MVP under his belt before Lebron had to jump ship in Cleveland and take his talents to MIA. (@minister – my post also shows you as a complete retard. until the 07-08 C’s had that amazing turnaround Bird led HIS celtics in his rookie year to the greatest single season turnaround ever). its amazing how little most of you know about the NBA pre-1996
Does everyone realize that Jordan averaged 32.5ppg , 8.0 apg and 8.0 rpg in the 88-89 season? The article boasts how it is the 16th time this season lebron has had 30pts , 5 boards and 5 assists where Jordan averaged better than that in 6 different seasons? He also led the league in steals in many of those same seasons as well. In the 88-89 season he averaged 2.9 steals a game which would lead the league right now. This is an incredible hot streak due to the field goal percentage but it is being blown out of propoerion
@EZBreezey, yea we totally know nothing about basketball when your stupid ass argument actually had nothing to do with the game itself. the same way lebron had all these camps and shit, bird had fucking COLLEGE to develop his game. so you can go eat a dick if you’re going to tell me lebron was taught more at a nike invitational camp than bird was taught in three years at a top college basketball program under bobby knight
my bad, he went to indiana state, not indiana u.
and another thing…one of the biggest comparisons between players now and then is that today’s players are more athletic, while players then had to rely more on actual skill. if that’s the case, all the training programs and nike invitationals you mentioned aren’t in fact helping today’s players as much as you want to give them credit for if they still don’t match up to the skill of the players in the 80s and 90s
and i just looked at larry bird’s wikipedia page, and it turns out that he DID play AAU ball, which is exactly what lebron played in before going to the NBA. and that was 5 years sooner than when bird came into the league where lebron didn’t have to “develop” his game but bird did. sure it took lebron 4 years to make the finals (and couldn’t win) while bird won in his second season, but 1. bird was way more matured, 2. bird was playing with all stars and future hall of famers. lebron had no one
thanks for further proving my point wetbandits. Bird never played for bobby knight you shithead – he played at ISU with a bunch of scrubs. keep getting that basketball knowledge of yours from wikipedia. also the camps they have now put the BEST players IN THE COUNTRY against each other starting at age 12. do you think Bird’s AAU team was touring the country with a Nike sponsorship playing Magic’s, Dr. J’s, Isiah’s, Ewing’s, Malone’s AAU teams? because they werent. Lebron’s generation has that. please respond and continue to make yourself look retarded, that bobby knight coaching Bird in college comment was GOLD
if you think the AAU system from the 60s is anywhere near the way it is now, or was in the late 90s when Lebron was involved in it, then you should just cuncel your life. these guys like Melo, Lebron, and Wade played against each other all the time from age 12, Bird didnt even know who Magic was until they were seniors in high school let alone play in tournaments against him . Do you think players are bigger, faster, and developing younger nowadays for any reason or did God just decide to let athletes get huge in the 90s/00s arbitrarily? guys today benefit GREATLY from modern advances, if you think otherwise youre an idiot, its not opinion, its fact.
yea, i’m sure the bobby knight comment would have made me look stupid if i didn’t IMMEDIATELY retract that statement and say that i thought that he had gone to indiana university and not indiana state. but nice try. keep ignoring the fact that despite all the nike camps, bird still had 5 of experience on lebron when he went into the NBA. and when did i ever say that players today didn’t benefit from modern advances? but last i checked, there were still a shitton of incredible basketball players back then without these modern advances. if you look at the league right now, you can’t honestly tell me that there are more than 5 players that will ultimately be on the NBAs top 50 players of all time list. which proves that despite all the modern advancements and nike endorsed camps, there’s still something that players from the 60s-90s had that todays players simply can’t match. that is, with the exception of a few like lebron, kobe, maybe even garnett.
you said you looked up that Bird played AAU as well, as if the AAU system back then was anything close to what is it in modern times – more traveling, more tournaments, more elite players from all over the country playing each other all the time = gaining better experience at a much younger age than playing other AAU teams in neighboring counties of Indiana. the fact that you even thought he played at IU for one second just shows you dont know much about Bird at all, in fact thats one of the biggest parts of his entire legacy that he took the Indiana STATE Sycamores to the NCAA finals with a bunch of nobodies on his team. you can try and say Bird has more experience because he played college basketball and Lebron didnt, im not ignoring it, im pointing out that Lebron had experience going up against a bunch of guys who ended up being future HOFers and All-Stars since he was 12, Bird outside of the NCAA tournament faced the brutal competition of local Indiana AAU teams and the Missouri Valley Conferece. the whole “Bird had more experience” argument is total garbage. What it comes down to is Bird took the worst team in the NBA, led them to the biggest single season turnaround in his rookie year (at the time) then to an NBA title in his second season. Lebron had to go to Miami and team up with established superstars to get his first ring after winning no titles in Cleveland in 7 years. You can say he had a rookie future HOFer in McHale help him but who’s to say McHale is a HOFer if he doesnt play with Bird and win all those titles? Is Al Jefferson a HOFer? cause he has no rings but has stats that stack up very nicely next to McHales
how on earth can you say that the “Bird had more experience argument is total garbage”? Bird was 23 when he came into the NBA, Lebron was 18. End of story. Al Jefferson is not a HOFer right now despite his McHale-like numbers because he doesn’t have the 3 rings that McHale does so you kind of answered your own question there. Bird did do something incredible when he took the Celtics from worst to first in two years, but he was playing with other competent players. Lebron was playing with garbage his entire time in Cleveland and still managed to take them to the finals (yes, I know they lost) at an age younger than what Bird was when he ENTERED the NBA. I still don’t think you can really compare the two until Lebron retires and has a full body of work to compare to Bird’s, Jordan’s, whoever’s, but he’s on his way to passing at least Bird in terms of best SF ever
youre whole point before was “bird had college to develop his game” and my point is so fucking what? Lebron has been playing against and alongside NBA caliber players since he was fucking 11 or 12 years old. he’s been traveling with AAU teams across the country playing the best competition possible before he was even a teenager. Do you think top players nowadays really need college to develop their games? is that why all the best players spend a season in college then jump right to the pros? Melo really had to learn the ins and outs of Boheim’s zone defense before he was ready to chuck up 20 shots a night in the league? Bird played at a small school with no-name scrubs for teammates in a shitty conference. Outside of playing a handful of games in the NCAA tournament he never played with or against any NBA caliber players until he actually got to the NBA. was he older chronologically than Lebron when he came into the league? yes. did he have an advantage of “developing his game” because of his road to the NBA vs. Lebron’s? fuck no.
Bird is not even half of What Lebron is. LBJ is already the best that have ever played in the NBA.